Niall's legendary military skill was on a par with his sexual prowess. nose and a serious case of puss popping zits. He earned his name, Niall of the nine hostages, by being able to subdue his enemies by taking members of their family and refusing to give them back until they admitted defeat. Take a look inside Dublin's most stylish townhouse, Number 31, Irish songs to avoid this St. Patricks Day, JFK's words remind us of the true meaning of St. Patrick's Day. Eochaid gives the task to a druid, Sithchenn, who devises a contest between the brothers, shutting them in a burning forge, telling them to save what they can, and judging them based on which objects they choose to save. [8] Accession, Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. His mother appears to have had much influence over his elderly father which helped Niall gain supremacy over his elder half brothers from Connacht. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. [11] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. https://reddit.app.link/S7mCRh4DeR I think you're probably right about the Northern Spain theory. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. ), (Niall Noigiallach MacEchach, aka Nial Mor Naoighiallach of the Nine Hostages', conquered nine countries (incl. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. Seeing Niall's popularity among the nobles, Mongfind demands that Eochaid name a successor, hoping it will be one of her sons. When Niall grows up he returns to Tara and rescues his mother from her labour. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right hand man. The association with Niall is based on an outdated study that noted many M222 men have surnames that supposedly come from Niall or his descendants. Joined then by the Irish in Alba, he marched against the Picts, overcame them, took hostages from them and had Argyle and Cantire settled upon the Albanach Irish. II, The History of Ireland by Geoffrey Keating, "The Laud Genealogies and Tribal Histories", "A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland. Niall's accession to the throne possibly took place around 379AD. "One of the greatest high kings was Niall of the Nine Hostages, whose reign began in AD 379. signature is created. He ruled Ireland in the fifth century and was said to have consolidated his power by leading raids on the Roman Empire, taking hostages from rival royal families in Britain and . [25] Indeed, more recent estimates indicate that the R1b-M222 subclade marked by the Moore et al. 'The Gathering is a reunion of clans so to speak. He also led successful raids against Roman Britain & Scotland (some distinguish one line of DNA from another. All but two of the High Kings of Tara came from this family. [9], While Niall is High King, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. The geneticists estimated that about 23 million men bear this haplotype. Or is it just bs from 23andMe? Supposedly slain in the English Channel or in Scotland, his descendants were the most powerful rulers of Ireland until the 11th . Niall of the Nine Hostages received his name from the taking of hostages as a strategy for playing mental havoc upon his opponent chieftains. The U Nill ruled to various degrees as kings of Ireland from the 7th to the 11th century C.E. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. [3] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379-405, [4] and the chronology . Irish tradition had forgotten that the Romans once ruled Britain, and relocated his remembered confrontations with the Empire to continental Europe, with Alba, the ancient name for Britain, being confused with Elpa, the Alps, or being understood with its later meaning of Scotland. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. Reportedly he had fair skin, hair the color of yellow primrose, and deep, blue-gray eyes. McManus, Molloy, Reilly, Rourke and Quinn. provide water, but she wants a kiss in return. His reign dated to the late 4th and early 5th centuries. The story Within our second panel of markers the most distinctive difference from the R1b Modal is the 15,16,16,17 at DYS 464. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. It was in one of these Gallic expeditions that the lad Succat, destined under his later name of Patrick to be the greatest and noblest figure Ireland ever knew, was taken in a sweep of captives, carried to Ireland and to Antrim, there to herd the swine of the chieftain, Milcho. Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. In the saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages", Eochaid's enmity with Niall begins when he is refused hospitality by Niall's poet, Laidcenn mac Bairchid. A fourth son by another wife was the warrior, Niall Noigiallach (Niall of the Nine Hostages). One day, the five brothers being in the smith's forge when it took fire, they were commanded to run and save what they could. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. One of [6], Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne andCoirpre. Historical Irish annalistic and chronicle sources place his reign in the late 4th and early 5th centuries, although modern scholars date him about half a century later. Menu. For more information, please see our Niall of the Nine Hostages. Killed in Battle. My R1b P-311 comes from Germany how about German King 23andme? kingship existed. However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. 279. r/23andme. Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person, [2] :70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. signature is created. Because of that, the identification of M222 with Niall's descendants is "difficult to justify". The sources for the details of Niall's life are genealogies of historical kings, the "Roll of Kings" section of the Lebor Gabla renn, Irish annals such as the Annals of the Four Masters, chronicles such as Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn, and legendary tales like "The Adventure of the Sons of Eochaid Mugmedon" and "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages". If instead, I want to see if I have Irish ancestry on my fathers side (even though my father has never claimed to be Irish! But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. and McLaughlin, J.D., 2011. Keating credits Niall with two wives: Inne, daughter of Lugaid, who bore him one son, Fiachu; and Rignach, who bore him seven sons, Legaire, ndae, Maine, Egan, Conall Gulban, Conall Cremthainne and Coirpre. [6], http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. Tom Peete Cross & Clark Harris Slover (eds.). Paternal lines are inherited through the Y chromosome, which only men have. Fiachrae is granted a minor royal linetwo of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. It is now more commonly referred to as the Northwest Irish/Lowland Scots variety.[15]. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. These sources date from long after Niall's time and their value as history is limited at best. See related article at Florida Irish Heritage Center. I was just wandering because it said most Irish have the common ancestor as well. However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. Niall does not have verifiable remains that can be tested. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. part of France), King of Ireland. [9 ], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. I'm obtaining my Portuguese citizenship due to this heritage. historical stronghold of the Ui Neill, where the study found the genetic [5] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379405,[6] and the chronology of Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn to 368395. The Picts tired of Nialls' ways and attacked the small Lirsh colony of Dalriada, which is now Scotland. He and his descendants continued to dominate much of Ireland 23andMe does test for this marker, so they are telling you you are M222+. Famous descendants include Niall's great-great-grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. In it, Eochaid Mugmedn, the High King of Ireland, had five sons: Four, Brin, Ailill, Fiachrae and Fergus, by his first wife Mongfind, sister of the king of Munster, Crimthann mac Fidaig; and a fifth, Niall, by his second wife Cairenn Chasdub, daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right hand man. Each brother in turn goes looking for water, and finds a well guarded by a hideous hag who demands a kiss in return for water. Here, according to tradition, elaborate rites were carried out between the future high king of Tara and the goddess of sovereignty. It turns out that maternal and paternal lines can offer some clues about Irish ancestry. the right to found a royal line elsewhere in Ireland. While Cairenn is pregnant with Niall, the jealous Mongfind forces her to do heavy work, hoping to make her miscarry. Donnelly, Egan, Flynn, Gallagher, Gormley, Hynes, Kane, McGovern, McLoughlin, The rise of the U Nill dynasties and their conquests in Ulster and Leinster are not reliably recorded but have been the subject of considerable study and attempts to reconstruct them. The Genographic Project Team, who conducted the study, returned to County Mayo to reveal the ancestry results of 100 local residents who participated in the Gathering Ireland event in June 2013. Known as Niall of the Nine Hostages from the nine counties of Ireland that he subued and made tributary to him. Husband of Inne ingen Lugaid and Roigneach ingen Meadaib In Irish Kings and High Kings (Dublin, 1973), John Francis Byrne prefers a much earlier date for Niall's death and also suggests the Three Collas never existed. Across the island as a whole, a different sub-clade the M269 pattern is [6] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Press J to jump to the feed. My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? [4] Famous descendants include Niall's great-great grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. The Vikings were driven out in 1014 by Brian Boru, but not before their DNA was embedded in the Celtic gene. [12], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. Niall of the Nine Hostages was the greatest king that Ireland knew between the time of Cormac MacArt and the coming of Patrick. Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[3]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. The common ancestor that you and Niall have wasn't necessarily from Ireland. But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Niall Nogallach (Irish pronunciation: [%CB%88ni%CB%90%C9%99l noilx], Old Irish "having nine hostages") [1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, theeponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. Niall Noigiallach aka "Niall of the Nine Hostages" was one of the greatest Irish kings. Son of Eochaidh Muighmheadhoin #124. concluded that these men descend from "a single early-medieval progenitor" and proposed that this could be Niall. [3] These sons are the eponymous ancestors of the various U Nill dynasties: Egan of the Cenl nEgain and Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, making up the northern U Nill; Fiachu of the Cenl Fiachach dynasty, Legaire (the king who Saint Patrick is said to have converted) of the Cenl Legaire, Maine of the U Maine, Egan of the Cenl nEgain, Conall Gulban of the Cenl Conaill, Conall Cremthainne of the Clann Cholmin and the Sl nedo Sline, and Coirpre of the Cenl Coirpri, making up the southern U Nill. He is known in folklore as a raider of the British and French coasts. [8], Niall is presumed, on the basis of the importance of his sons and grandsons, to have been a historical person,[4]:70 but the early Irish annals say little about him. Also known as Niall of the Nine Hostages.. [5], However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[3] and Francis J. Byrne[2]:pp. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. Patrick escaped from Ireland after six years of slavery, became a bishop, and returned to Ireland to convert its people to Christianity." Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". Scan this QR code to download the app now. [5], This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake.[9]. You absolutely do not understand. [9][10], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. The earliest version of the Lebor Gabla says Eochaid killed him on the English Channel, later versions adding that Niall was invading Brittany when this happened. [4], [edit]L egendary biography[edit ]Early life, Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. In the The newspaper articles are based on a dissertation: A Y-Chromosome Signature of Hegemony in Gaelic Ireland by Laoise T. Moore and Brian McEvoy, with Eleanor Cape. If Patrick was not this person, he would have lived shortly thereafter. 78-79 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. Ruling from Tara, Niall's modus operandi for gaining dominance was taking geneticists collected a number of samples from men across Ireland. The Annals of the Four Masters dates his accession to 378 and death to 405. Niall of the Nine Hostages received his name from the taking of hostages as a strategy for playing mental havoc upon his opponent's chieftains. A second, [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Niall, Mongfind, purporting to make peace between her brother and her sons, holds a feast, at which she serves Crimthann a poisoned drink. He gave rise to the powerful and widespread O'Neil (Ui Neill) dynasty of . Niall Nogallach (Irish pronunciation: [%CB%88ni%CB%90%C9%99l noilx], Old Irish "having nine hostages")[1], or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, son of Eochaid Mugmedn, was an Irish king, the eponymous ancestor of the U Nill kindred who dominated Ireland from the 6th century to the 10th century. [14] However, more recently some reservations have been expressed, as the subclade, which is defined by the presence of the marker R-M222, is found in a belt from Northern Ireland across southern Scotland and is not exclusively associated with the U Nill. He was killed in his sleep while aboard his royal galley. If you are an exact match, your profile in FTDNA will have a green graphic that states your DNA is an exact match to Niall. They should really stop doing that, the Niall of the Nine Hostages haplogroup is actually R1b-L21 (M222) which is way downstream . He conquered the Uliad aristocracy, which ruled in Ulster, and by this victory and subsequent consolidation of power was able to found a dynasty, the Ui Neill, which gave rise to the O'Neill clan. Niall exiles him to Scotland. men who can trace their ancestry to Ireland, and especially the north of Receive the latest from your DNA community. Yet his fall in a foreign land was to be compassed, not by the strategy or might of the foreign enemy, but by the treachery of one of his own. McEvoy states: "As in other polygynous societies, the siring of offspring was related to power and prestige." Niall exiles him to Scotland. More info: https://www.familytreedna.com/landing/matching-niall.aspx. All sources agree he died outside Ireland. The center of his government was at Tara. Skeletal remains of Viking child found during Dublin excavation, How to find out if you have Irish Viking ancestry, How you can learn Gaelic literature and culture online with a top Irish university, The Irish roots of The Doors Jim Morrison and how they influenced him, On This Day: Singing in the Rain Gene Kelly passed away. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. Niall Nogallach (Old Irish for "having nine hostages"), or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a prehistoric Irish king, the ancestor of the U Nill dynasties that dominated the northern half of Ireland from the 6th to the 10th century. Talk about your genes and their possible implications! Hi, i've posted my results recently, being of predominantly Italian (paternal) and Polish origin. [3] Laidchenn responds by satirising Leinster so that no corn, grass or leaves grow there for a year. Niall must have made many incursions into Britain and probably several into Gaul. 23andMe will give you the basic results for Ydna but . [4], A legendary account of Niall's birth and early life is given in the 11th century saga Echtra mac nEchach Muimedin ("The adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedn"). [15] Keating says that he received five from the five provinces of Ireland, and four from Scotland. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. No, if he's M222, his paternal line almost certainly came to Italy from Ireland and/or Britain. As the Celtic language in Ireland transformed into Irish between AD 400500, Venii became Fni, and were also known to have called themselves Gadhil (from Common Celtic *wdelos, Brythonic gwddel, Goidelic *wdus to Old Irish Godelmeaning savage woodsman, wild, raider). Geneticists have dated this My father was born in Hungary, how common is this haplogroup for those with eastern european ancestry? The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. We studied if there was any association between those surnames and the genetic profile. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. [9], This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. The Annals of Inisfallen date his death before 382, and the Chronicon Scotorum to 411. 222-232 O'Rahilly and Byrne argue that the literary sources, though late and garbled, preserve genuine traditions that Niall led raids on Britain, and perhaps died on one.[2]:pp. Slane Abbey: built on the hill where St Patrick is said to have lit the fire that convinced High King Laoghaire, Niall's son and successor, to agree to the preaching of Christianity. In The in hand with natural suitability for kinship) dates back to at least the 11th [3] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379-405,[4] and the chronology of Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn to 368395. The mighty warrior king Niall Nogallach dominates the twilight world between history and legend.