One name that was thrown around by a few people I know is the Rockna Wavedream. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. Nice. Would love to hear your opinions of which was better and why? Thanks. The other stand out dacs that we like are the Fixed. CH Precision C1 DAC. I can only comment on the Emm labs, if u can get a DA2 I think you will be happy "An audiophile is only done when they go to the great brick and mortar store in the sky" Ron Resnick personal preference." Sonically it is very much as its name suggests and converts files faithfully and without loss or (importantly) embellishment. Euphony Summus, EtherRegen, MSB Discrete. Yes, you read that right, the Select DAC is the best part of 121,000! To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. I'm really anxious to hear more opinions about this DAC and noticed that DAVE hasn't got a thread of its own (only together with Mojo). Click to expand. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. Up to 8X DSD The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. A fully balanced, ultra-high precision, discrete ladder DAC architecture ensures each note tells a story. Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. Digital inputs : RCA coax, AES/EBU XLR, 2x Toslink optical, 2x module slots, word . Once you add the second discrete PS, and a module or two for it to work, the price goes over $23-24K. I hate to repeat myself, but there are no absolutes in audio, only preferences. Looks like your budget goes up to ~$20k? As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Our publication is supported by its audience. Oppo Modwright BDP-205 full mod. @astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17 i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for its greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. DAC Comparison Reference DAC Modules 4x Hybrid DAC Clock The Femto 33 Digital Inputs 4x User Replaceable Input Slots Optical and Coaxial input module Included Analog Outputs Preamp XLR Output Module - 150 Impedance RCA output available with external adapter Analog Inputs XLR Analog Expansion Modules RCA or XLR Input RCA or XLR Output The LED display, slaved to the audio clock, is refreshed between data processing to drastically reduce electrical interference. DAVE is perfect for headphone system because you can save space and money of headphone amplifier. $16K Signature DAC sound? I understand that audio stores and distribution companies have the opportunity to A/B a significant amount of equipment. What didn't you like about the Dave? Hope to try different formats on both DACs to see what works best in my system. When connecting to the MScaler, Dual-BNC was used on the chord dacs with shawline digital BNC cables. Mind you, I have chipless DSD with 1 bit processing, so the bar is set VERY high for me. I would,however, like to say we are highly selective over the brands we represent and believe they are excellent value. I wanted to know for anyone who has heard it have you also heard a DAC that approached it in sonic performance? Of course your opinion on sound quality is your own, and valid, but to suggest that the reason for the difference is because the Chord is an "FPGA DAC" is technically incorrect. personal preference. The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. JavaScript is disabled. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator. heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. California crafted in-house from an aluminum billet, the enclosure feels solid yet refined. The USB module is completely electrically isolated and is again a standalone module capable of 32 bit#768kHz, MQA decoding and 8X DSD. Only hifi shops and shows hear and there. When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. Is it too hot to touch? I believe it comes down to Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. Triangle Magellan Concerto 2< AQEverest< Vitus Audio SS-010 Mk2< AQDragon High Current< AQWELXLR< ChordQutestDAC w UpTone JS-2 & AQ Dragon Source < AQDiamond USB< InnuosPhoenix USBwAQ Dragon Source< AurenderN100H & AQ Dragon Source< NetGear GS105GESwitch w UpTone LPS1.2< Supra CAT8 Ethernet components, Isoacoustics -> speakers + subs | Adona Eris II rack on Herbie's titanium footers | Fully treated and dedicated 2 channel room. You are using an out of date browser. I can see the problem with this unit. There is no dark magic involved. It is bested easily by DACs at $150. Didn't like it at all. 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . To cut a long story short: A burnt in MSB Analog DAC with Power Base demoed side to side to a burnt in DAVE was no challenge for the MSB. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. had if for 2 years now. Up to 1km lossless transmission. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. Like the Lab12. Dealer's should be required to state they're a dealer every time they post or have a disclaimer in their username. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. have had the opportunity to A/B many more pieces of equipment than any consumer 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. Couldn't agree more. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? I still did not found better audio source. This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. This very pleasant sound I was experiencing, it could be argued, was to a large degree down to the choice of amplifier and what that added to the mix, and I do think this is a valid argument. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. The video cannot be shown. Any owners around here? This hobby is "highly subjective", influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions; therefore you can A/B a million different components and come to a completely different conclusion on how it sounds compared to another listener. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. The Base module has two outputs (high and low) depending on whether you are outputting to a preamplifier or directly to a power amplifier. The BADA Ref is a great DAC and I understand the new version takes it to even another level. Watts is avidly not reading this in anticipation of the video version he won't watch. The Discrete DAC Features - MSB Technology The Discrete DAC Refined sound. Its an interesting setup with everything from design through to milling the chassis to building the circuit boards being done in-house. The Merriam-Webster online dictionary tells me that the definition of high-fidelity (HiFi) is the reproduction of an effect (such as sound or an image) that is very faithful to the original and it would seem to be reasonable to assume that this is the goal of audiophiles around the world. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. Almost all gear I hear is pretty good and some are great but the most expensive ones are not universally the best to my ears. Very resolving, tone is on the cold side of neutral but otherwise pretty free of digital nasties compared to the cheaper Chords, and the stage is flatter than Keira Knightley. MSB thrives off the innovation required to meet consumer demands. They are excellent pairing. @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. You could spend less and get close to the sound of this DAC, for sure. MQA decoding There are some tonal differences too, but what you prefer will depend on your other equipment and the music you like. The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. Funny how Rob Watts drones on and on about noise modulation, and then we see his product performing like this.. now one might not exactly call this noise modulation, but it definitely something to avoid, especially given the price tag. This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. Others might disagree but these are my findings. The MSB DAC comes with one external PSU as standard. Aurender N10 is still not a USB only dedicated streamer so you will not hear what USB audio is fully capable off through Ms/Dave. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. In that time, weve pushed the industry forward with each product weve built, redefining whats possible. Just go for an internal Asus card to fit in a PCI slot you should be able to get bit perfect optical output thanks for confirming suitability of current setup. Ok, I looked a prat but it proves that the separate PSUs are actually doing something rather than being there for show, though they do look rather cool in themselves. At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? By Jon Hopkins Music For Psychedelic Therapy was a beautifully enveloping experience, made all the more so as sounds come and go in the soundstage in a somewhat more solid way than without the usual DAC. This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. I'm super happy with my Esoteric N-01, which is a noticeable step up in quality/musicality from the DAVE - as yes the DAVE sounds a bit "thin" (though extraordinarily detailed). I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. The only thing that I'd really like to see added here is an Aries Cerat. In my listening tests, I could detect no attribute that made it sound special. None, despite working back as I always do if theres an issue! You must log in or register to reply here. More to follow. Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. Too objective for subjectivists; too subjective for objectivsts. Would I pay extra for the second supply? 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. The reasoning behind the two clocks dealing with different frequency families is that music is mostly recorded within multiples of the 44.1kHz family or the 48kHz family and having a clock dealing with each family minimises loss. The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. I would say go for one of the other MSB ModelsThe Reference is half of the Select dac and the premier and discrete dacs are stunning performers for their price level Just in case it's not obvious, toetapaudio is a Mola Mola Dealer. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! - Meat Loaf. What makes you want to upgrade from DAVE? The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . I do however like the i2S connection better than any other Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. MQA decoding How does it compare? in this forum and they are all very good dacs. Is it better than the Chord DAVE that I raved about a few years ago? digital front ends. For the most part, I used this input and for a quick comparison one of the optical inputs. Although I would like to keep this as close to $10-12K as possible. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. It is a pretty DAC but usability is left behind. To each their own, but I think Chord sounds cold and artificial. Actually the ChordHugo M Scaler and the Blu Mk. and the MSB Select II has a huge advantage over other dacs with its modularity and in-house development which promotes, in a very timely way, keeping the product at the very tip top cutting edge of digital interface developments. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. Please specify coaxial S/PDiF or optical S/PDiF. I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. sounds like a more transparent Chord Dave to my ears. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. We have what I consider to be a pretty resolving system, but we also listen to music a fair old bit for pure pleasure and so theres a valve amp currently feeding our chosen reference loudspeakers though thats not to say this system isnt highly resolving in its own right. It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. Ultimately, reducing noise in a system or improving room acoustics can have a bigger effect. The SQ is amazingly good. Once complete there are measurements and functional tests before the final products are inspected, cleaned, and packed up ready to be shipped, but not before a white glove inspection by either Jonathan or Daniel. Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? Never use!! and our ears are completely different. Yes, definitely, as it is those extra tiny little bits of detail that adds the cherry on top of an already rather splendid slice of musical cake brought out on tracks like the audio show mainstay Keith Dont Go from Acoustic Live by Nils Lofgren. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I Does anyone have formula for that? Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. What effect does reconstruction filter have? Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. Thank you all for your answers. I have personally not observed this - with either the DAVE or my Mojo. Nothing was amiss. Elevator Pitch Review: Built in America, the MSB Discrete is a modular DAC that also acts as a preamplfier, though, as supplied, it has no analogue inputs. And thinking more about it, the differences at the time could have been small because the noise level in my system at the time of the comparison were relatively higher than they are now. "Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". As it stands, the Discrete offers a very good solution should you be a music lover that plays only digital files and you can go straight into a power amp. So take it for what it is. I don't like Dave with or without upsampler but I do like Auralic G2 with their upsampler and clock. I agree price is necessarily indicative of quality or performance.