Reptilia sent me one of these compact grips late last year. To keep my support hand from creeping up on the muzzle, I added an M-LOK-compatible Kinesthetic Angled Grip (KAG) from Bravo Company Manufacturing (BCM) to the forend. Supporter+. It also directs sound and blast forward, away from the shooter and provides some flash reduction. Is there anything sweeter than these mighty mites? Choice of ammunition for AR-15s used to be limited by the 1:9-inch-twist barrel. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. To change the shooters perspective and in effect reduce target area, we staggered the targets. Thats as short as ARs get. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. They screwed up, realize it, and took care of the problem. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. In use, it seemed to all but disappear. Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. Our best-of-test group measured 0.4 inch across. Handguards are now modular platforms for lights, lasers, and sights, and ambidextrous fire controls are becoming more popular as well. In these times, what you want and what is available are two very different things. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. A late adopter of the AR, Springfield Armory has since risen to the top of mid-priced configurations. The Saint was the only carbine in the test that listed a heavy tungsten buffer among its specs, and it showed by delivering less felt recoil to the shooter. When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. Let's pick up there. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. According to the Sig Rep on ARFCOM: "6.75"/LVAW barrel was/is not made to be fired unsuppressed. Bob Meinert, FN Marketing Director, introduces FN's first commercial pistol suppressor, the FN Rush 9Ti. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. Its truly impressive. Apr 24, 2017 New! Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. We think this made the trigger a little more user friendly in that there seemed to be more time for the shooter to completely refine a shot. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. The grip was certainly not traditional, offering a very friendly profile, including a pinkie ledge, at the bottom and an extended backstrap up over the web of the hand. After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. Operation was very smooth and secure. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. For example, Ive seen U.S. Department of State Diplomatic Security Service special agents wielding them in the field when guarding high-value targets. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. Bought separately, the SCW (with this H3 buffer) retails for $590. I cant understand that. 4. Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. Full Member. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). SAINT ARs come in a range of sizes and calibers. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. Compare. The buttstock was adjustable for length by compressing the lower panel running in line with the buffer tube. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. (Notice they fixed this on the new Edge pistol with a longer barrel.) Installed with a 3/8-inch drive socket from the front, it can fit under handguards. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - First AR15 purchase; SIG M400 TREAD v. Springfield Saint Victor? One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. No. One of the ways that we suspect the suggested retail price of the Saint was held down was by utilizing an A1 front-sight assembly. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. We liked this because it simply wipes clean, making it easy to keep track of debris buildup and wear. Knock off mp5 in 9mm I had a mpx pistol 3yrs ago and while funseems about 100% pointless knowing todays ballistic capabilities of the 556 &300. blbennett1288 Rivet. You are using an out of date browser. However, I ended up loving it for what it is. We applied a snap-on buttpad from Limbsaver and was pleasantly surprised at how much more comfortable it was to shoot. Actually, there is little here that would put off the sophisticated shooter as well. It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. I said you really loved shooting the orange . General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. A spring detent pin was compressed to fold it down. Its so small you barely know its there, and its also rated for sub- and supersonic loads. Why pay more? So goes the AR-556 line of ARs. Any ways I just bought the Springfield Saint Victor in .308 . Its very handy. | For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. Probably 2k rounds through it and has always gone bang. The Rattler runs a very dependable gas-piston system, which eliminates all the fouling typical in these short-barreled configurations. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201for-carve-out/, http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=305685, https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017cal-gun-dealer, http://www.upi.com/Archives/1989/03/5406606027600/, St. Gabriel Possenti Patron Saint of Handgunners, If this is your first visit, be sure to Compare specifications of Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB and Springfield Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout STV909300B. And After shooting the CZ 75 Tatical sport orange I was in love . A Magpul dual split aperture flip-up rear sight was attached to the top rail that ran the length of the receiver. It was too short. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. Most familiar with ARs know you dont have to go out and buy one specially chambered for the want-to-be 7.6239mm clone. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. While many people often think of AR pistols as just short-barreled carbines, in this case, the pistol appellation is quite apt. Following the success of its initial collaboration with Vertx, Premier Body Armor announces its continued partnership. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging. To extend it, just give the brace a vigorous yank. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. I recently bought a Christensen Arms CA-15 G2 in Burnt Bronze, Stainless Steel Barrel w/ Carbon Fiber hand guard. No, but it was never designed to be. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). Ah, the AR-pistol. Its also rated for rounds up to the .300 Winchester Magnum, so it wont have issues with higher-pressure 300 Blackout loads. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. I dont own any Springfield armory but it seems they do one dumbass thing on every gun they build, but different every time. The Black Hills 60-grain V-Max rounds produced 0.8-inch-wide groups, and the 77-grain SIG Sauer rounds printed 0.9-inch-wide groups. This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. Measuring Performance A PDW is not a rifle. Sig Sauer has really redefined the word versatility with the MCX and MPX, and it doesnt get much better than the Rattler in close quarters. Fun as all get out to rattle off the range. Learn how your comment data is processed. However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. What more can you ask for? Units specializing in covert, ship-borne or hostage-rescue operations still wanted PDWs with more powerrifle-caliber power to be exact. All Guns and Ammo subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. For more information, please see our However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. A few times the bolt wouldnt lock back after firing the last round with the SilencerCo Omega 9K in place. PDWs in the modern era see most use with government security details where large rifles are not needed. It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. SA ars get a lot of shit from people but it has been a really good rifle. It started expanding at about 6 inches and fragmented at 15, leaving just the lead core and base at 26 inches. Springfield currently doesnt have any plans for a version in .300 AAC Blackout, but (hint hint) it would be a very smart move, as the .300 BLK performs much better out of short barrels than the 5.56. I fired the PDW at both an indoor and outdoor range on a cloudy day. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. and our Building on the popularity of the company's Rattler in 300 BLK, SIG Sauer introduced a new model chambered in 5.56 NATO for 2019. . A wide selection of CMP surplus ammo will 2023 JNews - Premium WordPress news & magazine theme by Jegtheme. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. This round was designed to offer terminal ballistics similar to the AKs 7.62x39mm while still being compatible with AR-style rifles, requiring only a barrel change. A quick note on sub- and supersonic ammunition and suppression. We tested our 1:7/1:8-twist-barreled carbines with 60-grain V-Max 223 Remington rounds plus 5.56mm ammunition topped with 69-grain OTM (open-tipped match), 77-grain OTM, and 77-grain TMK (tipped Match King) rounds from Black Hills Ammunition. In the same breath, the gun is compact enough to enhance its nimbleness, yet big enough to ensure the cartridges ballistic integrity. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. .300 BLK vs 7.62x39mm Designed for rapid deployment from concealment, the MCX Rattler packs a punch in the .300 BLK configuration. There was a slot for threading a sling and also a hole on each side for attaching a QD sling loop. But I would take the Sig over the Springfield every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. The Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW brings to mind a saying from Rush Limbaugh: Illustrating absurdity by being absurd. It offers, at least when compared to a standard rifle/carbine, compromised ballistics and a nearly comical appearance, and I havent done executive protection work in quite some time. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. The only mistake Springfield made on an otherwise terrific design, was to have the hand guard ride over the threads. I really appreciate the input. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! But I also own several Springfields (M1As in 308 & 6.5cm, Saint Ar15 when it first came out, compact XDe, XDs & XD Mod2 all in 45s, TRPs in 45 & 10mm and the now discontinued Range Officer in 45). Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. Sig Sauer. Combine the heft with a quality suppressor and the Blackouts recoil is negated to next to nothing, giving the pistol excellent follow-up shot accuracy. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. As to the brace, its a Tailhook Mod 2, an adjustable model that does an excellent job of settling in the gun. I'm a sucker for. Two additional components from Bravo Company contributed to the Saints distinctive lines. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. Listen to both sides of the story before you make a decision based on one magazine article. SAINT Victor rifles are designed to be masterpieces of performance and precision. The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. One last more subtle upgrade was the trigger guard from Bravo Company that left more room for a gloved finger without necessarily having to unlatch the bottom panel. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. Colt Model 1861 Special Musket: What's Its Value? The gas block is pinned in place. I really like the trigger in the Saint but the 716i has really good features too. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. With most loads, a 9-inch barrel is enough bore for a complete powder burn. We noticed that across all choices of ammunition the Saint produced the most velocity from each round. That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. The Rattler is, essentially, as. JavaScript is disabled. While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . MSRP: $2,720; sigsauer.com. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. However, given the options available, there are plenty of reasons and opportunities to buy a complete firearm. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. I can't get my hands on the DD5 which I really prefer. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. To this end, the Protector boasts Wilsons excellent M2 two-state TTU trigger, factory set to between 4.5 to 5 pounds. It may not display this or other websites correctly. (Most folks will never see such high velocities out of the 5.5 inch barrel.) Sig MCX rattler 5.5" 300bo 2. Barrel-twist rate was 1:8. The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. MCX-SPEAR . This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. Completely compatible with average, every day 5.56 ARs, the 300 Blackout upper is a viable route into the caliber (though if you shoot suppressed you might have to up your buffer weight). Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. Like the MPX, the MCX uses a short-stroke gas piston system, which does away with the need for a buffer system, and the weapon can use a folding stock or no stock at all. Camp Guns: Sometimes Perfect, Other Times Not But Often Essential! Target right showed five A-zone shots. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. They are dead to me. The trigger was forgiving in any situation, and construction was first rate. The abbreviated configurations of Americas favorite firearm are practically perfect in every way. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. All Rights Reserved. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. To test the SIG MCX Rattler SBR as it might be used on a deployment, I added a few accessories. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. Starting in 2009, Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), in cooperation with Remington Defense, took J.D. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. Want to optimize the hush on a 300 Blackout pistolor carbineits a subsonic ammunition affair. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. This is why the gun world is awash in top-notch 300 Blackout pistols. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! Filter SIG MCX . Honestly, theres not a ton to ballyhoo on the pistol other than it runs, dependably so. The company has several 300 Blackout pistols worth considering and fairly comparable in construction. I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? Keeping all the shots inside the A-zone was important, but for our purposes we wanted to know what characteristics were helping or hindering the shooter. Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] - Bravo Company Buttstock/Pistol Grip/Handguard/Trigger Guard, Nickel Boron GI Trigger, 16 Melonite Barrel w/ 1:8 Twist. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond.