Alex, we don't have enough info to give you an informed opinion. Built from 1912 to 1963. The surge of zooming pinions [wings]! We limited our shooting to 25 yards or less and seldom missed. For small bores, there are still new factory wood sets available. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. The Pitt-man-Robertson Act of 1937 began an 11 percent excise tax on sporting arms and ammunition. I found some they didn't. No Reserve. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? We need to talk model 12's sometime. The locked breech bolts of both guns have little perceptible play when the rear of the bolt is pressed from the side. Winchester was bankrupt and went into receivership in January 1931. Solid rib model 12 made in 1954. your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up Mechanically, the Model 12 duck gun differs little in design from the standard Model 12. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. prior written consent of the Copyright holder. Madis states Ventilated ribs were rarely offered on [duck] guns. However, The fact is a few duck guns were provided with these ribs. Dave Riffles book and the various catalogs I have indicate that the Winchester new ventilated rib was an option from about 1954 to 1959. Enthusiastic hunters bought the new repeater. We join Buckingham in his ducking skiff as he is poled through the bayou by Ab, his black guide. The price $379 does not seem out of line for model 12's in this area; however, my question is does the Simmons rib add or detract from the value of the gun? Alarm calls! Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. Contact us if you need an add on vent rib for your shotgun or order your Simmons ventilated rib barrel today! The magnitude of this sale is appreciated when you realize how few of the special 10- and 12-gauge magnum double guns were sold. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. The rib wasn't offered until 1954 according to the Dave Riffle Model 12 book so it wasn't originally produced at the Winchester Factory. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. I hunker down and blaze away. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. That is why I have never used one of my duck guns for duck hunting. Gun #: 978404477 Seller: Sportsmans Legacy GA Sales: 739 $25,000.00 In those good old days of the 1960s the ducks flew just above the cattails and shots were plentiful. The slide handle was given a larger diameter, flat bottom and 14 grooves on each side of the handle about 1947. I included tungsten polymer shot because it is non-toxic to waterfowl and has the same density as lead. The Olins used the Western ammunition plant at East Alton, Illinois, as collateral for borrowing about four million in cash, no small feat in the fall of 1931. This is not John Waynes revolver it is a modern work of art! For specifics on Copyright Law and Blue Book on this fine collector 12 gauge is around $2,700! JavaScript is disabled. It is the skeet style of stock with a comb drop of 1 1/2 2 1/2 inches, and a 14-inch length, butt to trigger. The straighter stock reduced perceived recoil. DAC 1 1/2"&n, FRO YOUR VIEWING IS A EXCEPTIONALY NICE MODEL 12 IN 3' HEAVY DUCK. The receiver is heavier and so is the barrel. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. THE SHOT GUN IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION , WITH A 28 IN VENTILATED RIB BARREL WITH FULL CHOKE. Sto, Used Winchester 12 20 Gauge, Pump-Action Shotgun, 25" Barrel Wood Stock, No Box. Westerns 3-inch 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot was introduced the same year. Everything functions as it should. another state. First of all was the end of management by people who were not familiar or sympathetic with the gun and ammunition business. The Olins were avid duck hunters. On the other hand, a duck caught in the middle of one of these dense-centered pattern sat 40 yards would receive a dozen or more pellets. the store. Sold them when we down sized to a smaller house that did not have a custom built safe room in it like the old house. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. The Model 12 duck guns are still as suitable for waterfowl passes, fox trails or the habitat of the wary gobbler as they were when the duck hunters at Winchester surprised the market in 1935. SAME RECEIVER AS MODEL 12 BUT MAD, Guns Listing ID: 640773MAKE - WINCHESTERMODEL - 12FINISH - BLUEDBARREL - 28\"CALIBER - 12 GAUGECAPACITY - N/AGRIPS - WOODCONDITION - VERY GOODFEATURES - HYDRACOIL STOCK & MODIFIED BARREL, Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 gauge EARLY Serial # Up for sale is a used Winchester Model 1912 Nickel Steel 20 ga, 2 3/4" chamber, 24" VR barrel stamped full but reads IM on a bra, Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga. You jack the shell out and it goes off under your nose. Very good condition overall. I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. Houze relates that for the Model 12 the Watrous report suggested improve the smoothness of the action as it is criticized for being rough. How this was to be accomplished is not related but closer hand-fitting and gauging of parts was likely. Exquisite Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with Modified bore. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. This gun has been single family owned since bought used in 1967. I RATE THE BLUING AT 98% AND THE WOOD AT 96+%. At Guns.com, if an FFL is IC CHOKED MIROKU MADE. The trap load was included because trap shooting is suited to the duck gun. However, killing ducks at long range remained the objective of many duck hunters. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Title. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . - Top Rated Plus - opens in a new window or tab, - eBay Money Back Guarantee - opens in a new window or tab. Get Guns.com offers and news!! Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. "SN:561491. Askins Ithaca 10-gauge double with 2 7/8-inch chambers averaged 86.9% with 1 5/8-ounces of shot. Very fine as professionally custom finished, showing 95% of the refurbished blue, with scattered rust spotting and handling marks. We'rebringing a level of Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. Thanks for the reference. organized, dont tell you a lot about what youre buying, and leave you on your , Winchester - Model 12, Deluxe, Pump Action, RARE 28ga. Used Winchester Model 12 20 Gauge 26" barrel WS-1 choked skeet Cutts compensator with restriction inserts good condition reduced, Winchester Model 12 Pigeon Grade 12 Gauge. Dolphin, I agree with you until the part where you imply that Model 12s were sent to Simmons for ribs and then sent back to Winchester to sell. For example, only about 300 Super Fox and 800 of the Ithaca Magnum 10 doubles went into hunters hands during the period. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. So a shooter really doesnt need a rib. Optional dimensions for straight or pistol grip stocks, grip caps, front sights and recoil pads were also among early options. An offset proof mark will boost the value compared to an aftermarket rib. Also, the rib and its receiver extension cover the Winchester proof marks, a sure sign that it is not factory installed. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. Checkered stocks and extension slide handles were available as options on the standard grade throughout most of the duck guns production. I have several 2-pin guns. The slide handle was enlarged in about 1956 to a slightly extended beaver tail shape with 14 circular grooves. SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. I have owned a Pigeon grade model 12 trap Dounut vent rib, built late 1955, now that's an oddity, who would order a Pigeon Trap with a Dounut Rib (?) Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. I have a questionwhen a gun is described as having a "milled rib" I thought that referred to the fact that the barrel had posts that were milled as part of the barrel instead of being attachedI see guns described as having "round post milled ribs" I don't think that is correct? Buy 1955 Winchester Model 12 20 GA Simmons Rib AA+ Wood: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 974012213. I included #2 shot because this size shot has always been my goose and turkey load in 3-inch shells. The pidgeon-grade duck gun was discontinued in 1961. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibManufactured in 1952. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. Since Every shotgun manufacturer is a friend of mine, Askins views were well known in the industry. Field grade pump gun with Mod choke barrel. The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. Learn how your comment data is processed. Length of pull is 14". Herbert Houze summarizes the Watrous report in his book Winchester Repeating Arms Company, Its History & Development from 1865 to 1981. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 13 1/8" LOP. The 12 month average price is $622.51 new and $661.18 used. Thomas C. Johnson came to Winchester in 1885 and remained a dedicated employee until his death in 1934. Free shipping for many products! I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. A forum community dedicated to Trap shooting enthusiasts. Epic 22 Pocket Pistol: The Beretta 71 Jaguar. Remington re-tooled from the M31 to the stamp, push and press 870 which sold for less than the M12. Emphasis was placed on loads of #4 shot because of its historical significance in waterfowl hunting and association with the long-range objectives of the Model 12 duck gun. Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibAuction Date: February 17, 2023. . Looks to me a bit like the raised rib on a Lutjic one barrel trap gun- and the 870- well, Rudy Etchen shot a 12 gauge 870 Trap Grade he got new in 1950-I'd like to have a C-note for every clay bird, box pigeon and game bird he shattered with that old Remmie- I could move in next to Bill Gates- or maybe his gardener!! The funds are returned to the states for wildlife restoration projects. on your local stores shelf, most retailers drop ship it from a warehouse in In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. 2. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. The drop at heel was reduced from 2-1/2 to 2-3/8 inches in December 1938. Condition: excellent bright bore, 98% blue overall thinn, Winchester Model 12. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. during that time I handled many M-12's of varying configurations. The gun looked to be in excellent condition except some nitwit had inlayed a white plastic diamond in the stock at some point. These are rare, a line can be seen along the dounut post on both sides. The deeply blued barrel and receiver frame are very good. Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? Actually, it is generally thought by researchers that no Winchester factory Model 12 ribs were made or installed by Simmons. I am still going with "Winchester sent Model 12s to Simmons for ribs, but Simmons sold them." Winchester advises Do not use steel shot in any Winchester shotgun with a fixed choke. Use tungsten polymer, tungsten matrix or bismuth shot for waterfowl hunting with your Model 12 duck gun. As far as early 2 pins, remember there were a few made as early as 1919, standard and "graded" model 12's (ie) "Black Diamaonds" they had the longer checkered forearm. During that time they largely made the right business decisions, hired the right people, and enjoyed a fair share of luck. Save $500.02 SKU: 3226743 . bolt act. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. The Model 21 received duck gun status in 1940, although 3-inch chambers could be ordered earlier. Advanced . The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. He was the chief designer of the Model 21 double, John Olins favorite. Wood is in very good condition showing very little handling or wear marks. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. I don't believe it has been fired. Most annoying was the failure of the action-slide lock to function properly. THE VENTILATED RIB IS BY SIMMONS GIN, 16ga, Full Choke, 26" barrel with a bright and shiny bore. I wish I had them back! I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. Some will even go 85% to 90%, but rarely. Keith, who obtained Askins Ithaca 10 magnum double upon Askins death, achieved 93% patterns with two ounces of copper-plated#3 shot in the big double. The duck gun made in 1952 has a Simmons ventilated rib. Bluing is in overall very good condition. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The duck guns reputation was made with the one and five-eighths ounce load, the heaviest 12 magnum load from about 1935 to the mid-1950s. Patterns were fired from a benchrest, using American Target Company B21 silhouette targets measuring 35 by 45 inches. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. Winchester needed to cut it's manufacturing costs and the milled vented rib was a costly proceedure. It is not as slow or pokey as one might expect. The staff shot skeet with the gun and concluded It is not as fast as the standard Model-12, but nearly so., In further shooting tests the staff found We could not discern any practical difference in recoil effect when shooting standard three inch heavy duck loads. Winchester supplied two boxes of 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8-ounces of #5 chilled shot pushed by four drams equivalent of powder. THE SHOTGUN HAS A 30' PLAIN BARREL AND IS FULL CHOKE. In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. A milled rib Model 12 is a milled rib Model 12, but the terminology is used a bit loosely. According to my source your Model 12 Winchester was made in 1924, so it is 89 years old. However, Winchesters ribs were not marked with the Simmons name and Kansas City address as mine is. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. Thereafter, a staggering number of variations were produced during the 1912-1980 period. 2023 Rock Island Auction Company. Riffle's excellent reference book on the Model 12 notes the 1919 patent date for the two-pin rib, but suggests that the rib was not on the market until 1920. I have read the 3 different books I have on model 12's from cover to cover many times. of a company that is committed to your satisfaction. Featherweight: same as above; lightweight alloy trigger guard. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Standard Grade: 12-, 16-, 20- and 28-gauge; plain, solid or ventilated rib round barrels; standard lengths 26", 28", 30", 32"; plain walnut pistol-grip stock; grooved slide handle. THIS SHOTGUN WAS A LIMITED RUN OF 4000 MADE BETWEEN 93-95. Open Fullscreen. The standard 12-gauge duck load in 1921 was a 2 3/4-inch shell holding 3 3/4-drams equivalent powder and 1 1/4-ounces of shot. By 1955, the options were matted rib, ventilated rib, straight or pistol grip stock and buttstock and extension slide handle checkered.